Dumbleweed
9:41 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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Talking ............ reveals more about the talker than what is being talked about.
FMOB!
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Hammer and Pickle
9:24 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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There would have been no Judaic Christianity originating in the Middle East without Greek philosophy and Asian Buddhist and Taoist inspiration, There would have been no Indonesian and Chinese Buddhism without Indian Hinduism and there would have been no Islam without Greek philosophy. One could even say the Greek god myths are a clear copy of Norse god myths from Scandinavia.
See what I'm driving at?
Talking about indigenous religions reveals more about the talker than what is being talked about.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
9:02 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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Irons
My point was that Christianity is a religion indigenous to Europe. It seems to have become a thing in Rome towards the end of the first century and to have become widespread by the middle of the second. It was the official religion of Rome by the end of the fourth century. That doesn't mean it isn't indigenous to Asia Minor, too, however, those people in Nicea in 325 would certainly have considered themselves Greeks or Romans. I have no idea whether the concept of 'Europeans' even existed then.
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ironsofcanada
3:24 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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WHU(Exeter) 3:08 Thu Sep 22
I would disagree, there were groups in history, and still are who, believe that Christ is a distinct being from God the Father.
Nicea rejected that as well but it was the first to codify that Christ was God (not a being created by and thereby subserviant to the God). It was directly rejecting Arianism.
I think Chalcedon was re-inforcing Nicea. But all interpretation, right?
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ironsofcanada
3:10 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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But going back to Surf's point - Believing in a Judaism where Jesus was the messiah - true of most early "Christians,"is very different from the Christian statues that were being debated in the Roman world 3 centuries later.
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WHU(Exeter)
3:08 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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Think Chalcedon was the defining one. The spirit or whatever of Jesus as far as the western church goes hasn’t changed after Chalcedon.
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ironsofcanada
3:04 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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WHU(Exeter) 2:57 Thu Sep 22
I was thinking of the first one in Nicea (İznik) - the one that defined what Jesus was.
But there were a number.
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arsegrapes
3:01 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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I'd like to know what the Sumerians, Assyrians and or Mesopotamians have to say about this?
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WHU(Exeter)
2:57 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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Kadikoy, or as it was then known Chalcedon.
The second council of. I’ve been to that church on the site, if it’s the same one.
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ironsofcanada
2:39 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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Though to be fair some of ecumenical dirty work took place in what is now the Asian part of Turkey.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
2:35 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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IoC
It's interesting, though, that the word 'indigenous' should be used by the kind of cunt that protests indignantly when it's used to describe the long-standing ethnic population of these islands. It's almost like they want it both ways...
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ironsofcanada
2:29 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero 2:11 Thu Sep 22
There is a very strong argument to saying that anything close to Christianity practiced today was codified and really began in earnest at Rome.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
2:11 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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Christianity IS indigenous to Europe. Earlier non-European sects celebrating Jesus were still part of Judaism.
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ironsofcanada
1:23 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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gph 12:25 Thu Sep 22
So you would not say, as many scholars do, that Salem (the King of which - Melchizedek - Abraham paid tithes to) is the same as Jeru-salem. The progress of his travels seems to take him there in the correct sequence.
Isreal and Judah split of course, but both still tied themselves religiously to Abraham who lived in places like Shechem,Nablus, Moreh, and Bethel, which were in the Northern kingdom.
But I agree Judaism isn't native to New York, Montreal or London either.
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gph
12:38 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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The point's already been made that Islam isn't indigenous to Europe.
If I disagreed with that, I'd disagree with that.
You fucking idiot
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riosleftsock
12:31 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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Coffee 3:21 Wed Sep 21
This.
Interesting that gph mentions every abrahamic religion, except one. A classic example of why there is an elephant in the room
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gph
12:25 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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Very few religions are indigeneous to the regions where they hold sway.
Christianity is not indigeneous to Europe.
Even Judaism is not indigeneous to the Norhtern Kingdom of Israel. The bits of the Bible written in Judea make that plain. The handful of Samaritans still surviving are religiously closer to the Israelites.
For a start, they would both deny that the Judaite city of Jerusalem was the Holy City.
Despite that status being a pretty staple point of Orthodox Judaism.
Non-orthodox Judaism seems saner, but tries to occupy the same compromise position between religion and secularism that mainstream religions of other varieties do.
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Side of Ham
12:19 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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You're English born Svender.....
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Sven Roeder
12:07 Thu Sep 22
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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Sooooo .... it all started with English born cricket fans fighting other English born cricket fans?
Disgraceful
ICC should act and throw England out of the t20 World Cup , SURELY?
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eswing hammer
9:08 Wed Sep 21
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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“You Indian bastard”
“No you Pakistani bloody bastard “
‘No you fucking Indian bastard “
“ No you , you are the Pakistani fucking bloody bastard “
“No you are fucking bloody Indian fucking bloody bastard “
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Cabbage Savage
8:09 Wed Sep 21
Re: Its All Kicking off in Leicester & Birmingham
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are they doing battle on ellyfants?
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